Thanks, Rick!

Rick Joyner posted this here :

Over the last couple of weeks, there has been an increasing swirl of controversy regarding Todd Bentley. I have had almost daily contact with him, and he asked me to post the following:

Todd Bentley asked me to convey his appreciation for all the prayers, expressions of love, and concern while he tries to navigate through this present situation. He is grieved by the trouble and confusion this has caused, especially to his friends, coworkers, and all who have trusted him. He wants to make a clear statement about it, acknowledging his responsibility in this and the mistakes he made, but he feels that he should first meet with Pastor Bill Johnson, who is out of the country and will not be available for a couple more weeks. He asks that you would continue to pray for him, and he thanks those who are willing to be patient. He wants to do this right and not hastily or superficially.   

I would like to accept personal responsibility for counseling Todd to wait until he has talked with Bill before trying to make the “full disclosure” of his mistakes. This needs to be done right and in a way that does not unnecessarily hurt even more people. In just a couple of weeks, things should have calmed down enough for a statement to be made. Impatience is not a fruit of the Spirit, and I have personally never seen anything done under the kind of duress and pressure that some are trying to exert at this time that ended up not being a mistake.

The only thing that I have received from the Lord about this matter directly is that “those who rush to judgment will be exposed.” This entire matter, including the Lakeland Outpouring, is a test. To me, the miracles, healings, salvations, and profoundly changed lives that resulted in people, some that I personally know, make all that is happening now still worth it, many times over.

My opinion of the Lakeland Outpouring has not changed, and it will mark a demarcation point for the church that will have a positive impact on our future. I greatly appreciate all who helped to make it possible, and I also appreciate the devotion we are seeing to not compromise basic biblical standards of morality and integrity. If we handle what is now before us rightly, it can have an even greater impact than the Outpouring did to encourage and strengthen the church for the great tasks before us.

I have no doubt that many of the statements that are now being made are going to be regretted by those who made them. Since I am appealing for a couple of weeks to give Todd the chance to process these matters and meet with Bill Johnson, I think we should give any who may have made premature statements some grace too. There are leaders who are applauding some of these statements, but almost every Christian that has talked to me about them, as well as most of the leaders I have talked to, thought that they were hastily made statements meant to cover their bases which cost these leaders a lot of credibility. I have only read a few, and that was not necessarily my perspective, though it is very obvious with some.

Even if this is the case, this is a natural tendency when someone is wounded. I think we should resist writing off these people and maybe have a moratorium to allow everyone a chance to retract what they have written for the last couple of weeks. We are told in Galatians 6:7 that we will all reap what we sow, which means that if we want to receive grace, we should give it, and if we want to receive mercy, we should give it. There may be some of this in my own writing that I am not able to see because I too am hurt by this situation. Therefore, I am also asking for grace and mercy if this is the case.

My main concern is that some of the worst doctrines and actions taken in church history were the result of people responding out of their wounds rather than by following the Lord. A lot of people are understandably hurting right now. Even so, those who resist taking action or making statements out of their pain, or under pressure, will be glad they did. Again, impatience is not a fruit of the Spirit, and it will never lead us to where the Lord wants to take us. Those who rush to judgment, or are hasty to take action, are not treated kindly in Scripture, and are likely to pay a high and unnecessary price for it.

I recommended to Todd to allow a panel of those who are considered true elders in the body of Christ, who could be impartial, to judge this situation, and he readily agreed. He did not make any demands or suggestions about who should be on the panel. He only said that he felt he should not cross the line and say anything negative about his wife, and that he intends to continue to love her and his children, and take care of them.

The Apostle Paul lamented in I Corinthians 6:5 saying it was to their shame that there were no judges among them, yet they were even called to judge angels. The lack of elders, who are also called as judges, is probably still the main cause for much of the shame that continues in the body of Christ. Righteousness and justice are the foundation of the Lord’s throne as we are told in Psalm 89:14, and if we are going to walk in His authority there must be a place for due process that is a standard of justice. God obviously cares very deeply about people being treated fairly and that His standards of righteousness are upheld. His seat of authority demands this for a foundation.

One thing we can be sure of—the Judge is on His throne and all of this is going to work out for good for His people. I am more encouraged every day at what is unfolding and at the great opportunity this situation is for us. The Holy Spirit moved upon the chaos in the beginning and look at the beautiful creation He brought forth! He knows how to do this and seems to love the opportunity that chaos gives Him to show what He can do. This, too, will work out for good to everyone who loves Him and is called according to His purpose. We have this as a sure promise from the One who cannot lie.

John Crowder

John Crowder was ministering in Albuquerque last weekend.  What a blessing this young man is! 

John believes we are designed to enjoy God, and he is gifted to help people learn to do just that.  

John is not a dangerous heretic – his doctrine is orthodox, and his life appears to be upright and wholesome before the Lord.  

John seems to believe – John my brother, I hope I am not misrepresenting your position – that the Scriptures indicate that the Holy Spirit can trigger the divinely-engineered spiritual analogs to the pleasure centers in our brain so that we do not need unhealthy counterfeits such as drugs.

I have studied this, and while the scripture does not necessarily prove that, it certainly suggests it.   The wine of the Holy Spirit should make us merry.  John also believes that angels are our helpers in this.  It is undeniable that the angels are here to help us.  It does make sense that they would help us in aspects of righteousness such as enjoying the Holy Spirit.

It is sad that so many turn to various substances and activities, legal and illegal, to satisfy their God-given need for pleasure.

Some will passionately defend the right of believers to take all sorts of drugs for depression.  I will not argue with them – we all have a legitimate need to feel good!

But how much better if we can feel good because we have fully turned to the Lord, and taken advantage of drinking daily of the wine of the Holy Spirit.

John uses some metaphors that when understood make perfect sense.  If people are not being taught to live in the intoxicating freedom of the Holy Spirit, they will seek the counterfeits provided by the enemy of our souls.

Of course we should not worship pleasure or seek it.  But we should not be the dour “Church Lady” Christian either – even unbelievers know that any religion that produces harsh and unfulfilled miserable people cannot be right.

Get your life right with God.  Stop making unhealthy choices.  Seek the Lord passionately with your whole heart. 

Let gifted ministries such as John Crowder teach you how to more fully enjoy His pleasures, so that you will no longer be attracted to Satan’s counterfeit pleasures.

I appreciate John’s gift, as easy as it is to be misunderstood.

Father, protect this young man!

Some Genealogical Research

I have been studying genealogy.

I thought it might be a blessing to whoever happens to read this blog for me to post my personal family tree in its entirety.

God

â

 

Me

 

Jesus has exactly the same one!  He and I were once descended from Adam, but that was in another life!

What does your family tree look like?

“…in order that the Son might be the firstborn among many brothers…”

Doris Wagner Letter

What a classy lady – I stole this from another blog.  But it is just too good!

It is a follow-up to a letter from her husband about events of Tuesday, Aug 12.

————————————————————–

Then, during all of Tuesday, until after 1 a.m. Wednesday, all of my time was spent at the computer with e-mails and they all fell into two categories: the PROS and the CONS, roughly pretty equally divided. Wednesday and Thursday, all of my waking hours have been spent answering this type of mail.

The Cons are pretty nasty. One even said: “Let me be the first to say ‘I told you so.’” These individuals asked Peter not to get involved in the “Lakeland Thing” from the onset. Some of them are probably rejoicing over Todd’s problems. Several are demanding a public apology from all who were on the platform on June 23rd, along with God TV. Many are disrespectful, seemingly calling names and slinging mud. They come across to me as jubilant in victory. I question the godliness of this attitude. Along the way we have lost friends who have ceased to trust us, pulled out of our organizations and separated from us. That’s o.k. They say we have been guilty of poor decisions and actions.

The Pros have seen things differently. They have agreed with our actions. Let me reflect a little on these actions as I see it. If I seem defensive, forgive me. Peter is such a kind and gentle person that he would never defend himself. I am a deliverance minister, and can become abrasive when I see Religious Spirits, Pharisaical Spirits, Spirits of jealousy, envy and even hatred become exposed. The fattest of all is the Accuser of the Brethren very much at work in the current situation. Whenever Peter is falsely accused in print, he usually just smiles and says “Did they spell my name right?” If things get really bad with false accusations, by a John Doe, he will serenely say “John Doe is not the enemy-we know who the enemy really is.” This ability to handle the negative really bugs some folks and they dislike him even more. Believe me, my pillow has been next to his for 58 years and I have seen this played out. There doesn’t seem to be a wide neutral zone, either he is liked or disliked. That’s just the way it is.

Peter is a man of the highest integrity. He’s a man of his word, as honest as the day is long. He has kept his wedding vows-no need to renew them, the old ones are still perfectly good! He has been total fun to live with and to raise our children together. He has treated me as a colleague with great respect. He is brilliant and godly. As we have been working on his memoirs, I have been amazed at what we have accomplished together, and we have worked side by side all of our married lives. Of all women, I consider myself to be highly blessed. Enough of that.

Peter did not jump into the “Lakeland Thing” lightly. He thought about it, prayed about it and we talked it over. Did “the outpouring” or Todd have some imperfections? Absolutely. Peter was asked to help out to set things in order and to investigate what some folks thought might be doctrinally “iffy.” He was asked to do this by Lakeland’s host, Stephen Strader, a colleague in the International Coalition of Apostles, which Peter leads. It was a “Macedonian Call” for help. That is Peter’s job. Many of the Con people mentioned above thought Peter should have said no to this plea. After serious thought, prayer and consultation, particularly with our most closely related prophet, Chuck Pierce, we decided to move forward.

We felt as though there was a legitimate anointing on Todd’s life. We knew he was an imperfect person but our honest desire was to sort out and save the good. The other charge against us is that we stupidly could not recognize that these miracles were being done under the power of a satanic spirit and that we were totally lacking in discernment. My answer to that is, there probably was some of the flesh at work on some occasions, and people operating with a higher level of discernment may have picked up on some things we could not. I seriously question whether a satanic spirit got away with all of the good. My conclusion is that it was mixed and we wanted to help sort out the good. The Apostolic Team of 11 apostles which Peter put together is still in the process of sorting all of that out, and time is needed to do that.

The most serious charge against us is that the alignment meeting of June 23 was absolutely wrong (implying that at best we were misled, at worst committed a grave sin in so doing). Our thought was to bring alignment to Todd, thereby gaining the right to speak into his life and ministry as he accepted the apostolic oversight of Che Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott. This was accomplished. Please reread Peter’s paper sent out to our entire mailing list a few days ago. Peter did not “ordain” Todd, as some journalists keep saying over and over wanting it to become truth. He blessed him, yes! Isn’t it strange that all the negative things surfaced so soon after alignment took place and Todd agreed to oversight?

I see all of this as God’s great mercy and love. Lots of critics just plain don’t like Todd’s looks. He’s tattooed and pierced and dresses down on the platform. I wouldn’t want my son to look like that, but to throw it all out at the cost of throwing out the anointing needs to be carefully considered. But then the world didn’t think much of John the Baptist who probably wore smelly camel pelts and ate bugs. Jesus had other thoughts about John, however. As I work in the field of deliverance we start with what wants help and go from there. To see some major transformation in a person’s life is a miracle often witnessed. We work with some raunchy raw material at times and our only prerequisite is that they want to be helped. It’s enough. Man, indeed, looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. Let’s look at hearts and the hand of God, and bless what He is blessing.

Todd is in a perfect spot for help. The night of June 23 when we were there, Todd gave a long testimony. He has been wounded, and has wounded others along the way. He is still a young man, rescued from the streets and a biker society. He is not highly schooled or terribly polished. He does not fit the scholarly, seminary finishing school mold. He has not had the advantage of a solid steady home environment. But then again God has this habit of not choosing the things that we would choose. I could easily see that Todd needs deep inner healing and professional-level deliverance he has not yet had the opportunity to receive. One of our critics said that we got it backwards and should have taken him into a back room and ministered to him before the ceremony. We had the luxury of a few minutes with Todd before the evening meeting. We had never met the man before. Was I to say “Hey, Todd, you’re a mess and need help in the next five minutes”?

The prescribed protocol is to put things in proper alignment first, then be in a position to speak into his life. That opportunity is presenting itself now. Todd now has the opportunity to address some character flaws and get them healed and corrected in order to carry the anointing God has given him. We in deliverance and inner healing minister to these things daily-they are nothing to be ashamed of. Not to deal with them out of pride or denial is where the shame can take hold. I worked with dairy cows as a kid and picked up some of their lice once. My mom told me as she treated my head with some smelly remedy “The shame is not in getting lice, the shame is in keeping them.” I never had lice again!

Be assured that Todd’s overseers, Che, John and Bill along with Peter are hard at work. Please give us some time. Peter is in Singapore and goes on to Indonesia for a few days and will not be back until next week. Che is ministering in Korea. Bill and John have killer schedules all summer long. We are working as best and as fast as we can, but there are constraints that slow us a little. Things like thousands of miles and schedules that cannot be changed, and when it is day here it is night in Asia.

I am very optimistic. I see a door of opportunity swung wide open. I see a wonderful, merciful God reaching out. What many are calling a rotten mess I see as a splendid chance for one of the church’s finest hours. The mess was there festering for a while anyway, now let’s fix it. Is Todd’s situation a strange thing? The breakup of the family is one of the most common societal problems we face today. How many other couples contemplating family breakup could be encouraged to get help if this is a successful rehabilitation?

Todd now has some fathers by his side to help in time of need and to avoid shipwreck if he chooses to accept that help. He now has some authority in his life, and parameters are comforting to kids. He is deeply loved by many who are in a position to help spiritually, emotionally and mentally. He is a place of protection he did not have the luxury of before June 23.

Let me close by asking and a few questions:

Might it be that there is a hunger for revival as never before in our country? I think so.

Might it be that God wants to send us that revival and is anxious to do so but needs the right persons and proper government in His church to look after it? I think so.

Could it be that there was true anointing in an imperfect vessel and a merciful God wanted to set up circumstances to bring healing to Todd? I think so.

Could it be that when one apostle asked another for help in separating truth from error in a situation of mixture, that error began to surface so quickly? Isn’t the church better off when error is exposed and corrected? I think so.

Could it be that God brought alignment, authority and order into the Lakeland situation and once that order was established Todd was in a safe place to be ministered to? If a wounded soul gets help and is rehabilitated, isn’t that good? Isn’t it wonderful to have a restoration process in place to help a brother back to useful service and full use of his gifts and anointing? If he decides not to be helped, we have done our job in making that help available, and his overseers have charge of his care.

Isn’t this what the church is supposed to look like? I think so. If we fail, at least we will have tried. Not to have tried would have been failure to do what God required of us at this point in time.

Now here is where you come in. PLEASE PRAY. Ask God to so minister to Todd to soften his heart and to reach out for help, and to be fully healed. Ask God to help him to be willing to submit to the apostolic oversight that has been put in place. Ask God to heal his marriage and protect and bless his wife and three children.

This episode has the potential of being one of the finest hours the church has seen in recent years. I implore you to pray. Because this has all been so public it is all of our business and we must act on our knees. We have a real enemy capable of infiltrating the church to truncate this process. Let’s fight for victory!

Sincerely, in Christ,

Doris

The Broccoli Revival

I was quite distressed to hear of Todd Bentley’s difficulties, and to whatever extent they are related to errors on his part, that needs to be addressed.

But the more I ponder on this, the better it looks.

 

I will explain.

 

My grandmother taught me how to grow broccoli.  One summer I grew a small garden at her home.  She explained that whatever sprouts up first in the broccoli plant has to be cut off, so that the rest of the plant will grow bigger and yield a good harvest.

 

The principle of growing broccoli applies to recent events.

 

God works continually in ways that defy our expectations.

 

The Jews expected to rule the world.  But it didn’t turn out that way.

 

The followers of Jesus expected Him to usher in a visible and dominant kingdom.  But it didn’t turn out that way.

 

The pattern of God, oddly enough, is often one of relatively sudden and public humiliation followed by a very gradual and more private exaltation. 

 

Is that your own testimony of the pattern of the grace of God in your life, as it is mine? 

 

The disciples were dramatically and painfully humbled when their leader was crucified.  It was done in front of the Roman government and with thousands of witnesses.  But when that same leader rose from the dead, it was seen by only a few (not counting several billion angels who saw Him re-enter heaven!).

 

Of course Todd Bentley is not Jesus — he is, like the rest of us, a flawed and fallible human being. 

 

Somewhere on the Internet several weeks ago I read a prophecy stating that one person would fall, and to some extent appease the critics, but that the revival would continue.  I have tried but I cannot find that now.  I remember when I read it thinking, Oh my, I certainly hope that this is not talking about Todd.

 

Now it appears that in fact it was.

 

So the head of the broccoli plant, the leader of this revival, someone who carried with him a dramatic and powerful anointing that was undeniable to those who experienced it, has been forced to the sidelines. 

 

Unfortunately for the enemy who achieved this victory, it will only turn out to allow this work to spread in new areas.

 

So what seems to be the enemy’s greatest victory, and what we may perceive to be a humiliation will (if we so choose) turn out to be a transition into something even better.

 

The prophets have been saying for a long time that this would be a no-name revival.  The way Todd was so far out in front, I remember wondering to myself, How in the world is this going to be a no-name revival? 

 

Well, now I know!

 

Please, please do not discard the work that God has done in you through this outpouring.  It is just getting started.  It is just a small rivulet in the greater river of the kingdom of God, but what a blessing it has been.

 

And please join me in being supportive of the group onto whom a new mantle of leadership will now fall.  They have been launched into a greater visibility, albeit in a somewhat awkward fashion, and this can turn to the good.    He is truly the God who captures the awkward to redeem it and move through it!

 

Che and Bill and John and Peter and Rick and Randy and Patricia and all the others have made thousands of good decisions, and as a result have been entrusted by the Lord with enormous authority and have blessed millions.  My prayer and confident expectation is that they will move ahead with what God is calling them to do without a moment’s hesitation or second-guessing.  Who has time for that?

 

Are there lessons to be learned?  Sure, and you can bet that these seasoned veterans of the kingdom will learn them.  But I’m not sure that the most important lessons are the ones that might seem obvious.

 

The number one lesson might be, Don’t be offended, find the good, and keep on keeping on pursuing Him.

 

It’s only going to get better!

 

 

 

Some Opinions

Here is what people who are leading the church forward, people who have seen enough to discern what is a move of God and what is not, are saying about Todd Bentley and Lakeland:

John Arnott:

“It’s just amazing what God is doing here (at Lakeland). Carol and I are here tonight to absolutely bless this, with everything in us.”

Bill Johnson:

“Todd is a good friend, but more importantly, he is a friend of God. I’ve met very few people in my life who are hungrier for God and will take extended periods of time just to seek Him. God has entrusted him with an extraordinary outpouring for a reason—He can trust him to do whatever He says, regardless of the opinions of others. He is bold—amazingly bold. The miracles are legitimate and increasing. The church of America has asked for a great revival. God wonderfully placed this move in a package that few would have expected, just to see if we’re as hungry as we say we are.”

Rick Joyner:

“If you have any doubts about Todd, don’t. He is the real thing and has one of the greatest gifts of faith for the release of the power of God of anyone I’ve ever known, and I’ve known some of the great ones. I’ve only been with Todd one time when high level supernatural did not start happening—when he was going through his “dark night of the soul.” Even then, the Spirit of revelation was all over him, and I had no doubt when he came out of that period he would go to a much higher level. What has been happening in Lakeland has been great, but I expect it to go much higher, in Lakeland, or wherever else this breaks out.”

Peter Wagner:

“A few of us met with Todd personally before the service, and we found him to be a wonderful individual. Doris and I had never met him before. I explained to him what the ceremony would be like, and he agreed. I thought that it was interesting when he wanted to change one thing I had written in this document, because I could then run a quiet test of his humility and his respect for authority. Keep in mind that this was Todd’s ministry and Todd’s meeting. However, he had delegated the leadership of the ceremony to me. I suggested that his change was not wise, and he immediately accepted my decision. We were on the same page! In fact, we like each other!”

What God is doing through Todd Bentley at Lakeland has the blessing of many international leaders, including Che Ahn, Randy Clark, Heidi Baker, and many others with growing, dynamic, influential ministries.   It is almost impossible to find a significant figure in the Body of Christ who openly disapproves.

Go Deep

What is happening through Lakeland is profound.

Some look at intellectualism as being “deep”.

True depth in the Lord is a matter of intimacy with Him.

A very stupid or even retarded person could be much deeper in the Lord than an astute evangelical theologian.

The Lord talked about people who have no root in themselves.

At Lakeland we see people getting saved and encouraged in their Christian faith.

We also see people speaking who have experienced Him in profound ways.

Each of us has to choose whether we will go deep – deep in the Lord.

If Lakeland encourages and challenges you to go deep, do not let the moment pass you by!

This is not a shallow event.  The walk that God has called you to is not a shallow experience.  It is one that makes demands upon the most profound deep and real intimacy of the person that you really are, where you really live.

It is not a mental trip.

The Lakeland outpouring is about real people touching a real God.

Take the challenge to get to know Him.

Go deep!